My main goal is to understand my neighbor, my colleague and my friends, and therefore the dialect is the way to go. Moroccan Arabic (known as Darija) is the spoken native vernacular. 13:11. Since the fall of the Ottoman Empire Fusha has been on a decline in most cases by design. we are all students of the world and sometimes we learn the wrong things. You also need to differentiate the extended sharp 'A' and trilled 'r'. I do not believe people spoke Fusha in large numbers in thePast. The debate about the status of Darija versus Modern Standard Arabic (MSA), is an ongoing one in Morocco. how shall I read, for example, Harry Potter which is published in MSA?=). I also want to be able to understand Arabic news and literature, so I feel MSA may be more useful. Don’t translate the children’s stories, just have your tutor tell you the stories, slowly and lovingly. Or Germans? This is also applying to local magazines, blogs, you name it. Students can choose between Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) or Colloquial Moroccan Arabic … What is the name of the book you’re currently using to “re-learn” the Palestinian dialect? Is it a waste of time for me to be learning arabic now or should I just wait to learn a dialect later? There are no shortcuts. The author may repost if desired.Posts on the Tripadvisor forums may be edited for a short period of time. (you can say this and walk away), Maleesh – It’s okay. However, I am preparing to go to the middle east and I plan to learn the dialect. Indeed, the comparison between the Romance and the Arabic languages is very precise: the older variety of the language is preserved for religious purposes but was lost as an ordinary spoken language about 2000 years ago, surviving in its descendants, which are now different enough to be called separate languages by worldwide standards. Your question is a perfect example of someone who should NOT learn MSA. I’ve noticed that many Arabic speakers are also quite biaised in their opinions of the different dialects of Arabic, and have a hard time understanding why someone would want to learn a dialect, since MSA and/or fusHa are considered to be the only “real” Arabic (even if they don’t speak it themselves!). Hehehe…, Mi Adam ! I’m indonesian, i recently studying MSA. Not at all. Create your account now and join thousands of other Arabic learners from around the world. Listen to the native Arabs: NOBODY speaks MSA in real life situations, other than attempting to speak MSA with you out of respect. I imagine it is essential for Koranic study, although I am not sure if spoken fluency (speak and listen without text) is necessary for this? It’s your decision though. Whereas non-Arab or Arabic Arab teachers keep saying MSA is like BRE or AME like how English teachers keep saying grammar is English when truth is most people who are fluent in English do not even know what is adverb or what is tenses. Right now, my goal is to be understood, so that may mean a mix between MSA and Egyptian colloquial until I get a handle on spoken communication with people. CMA is grammatically simpler and has a less voluminous vocabulary than Modern Standard Arabic. Transliteration and the Arabic alphabet will be taught, although the course trajectory will move towards Arabic alphabet-use only. Over time, many peoples have divided, conquered, and shared Morocco among themselves. Diplomacy, business? In any case from a business standpoint, you could potentially increase your subscribers exponentially, if along with the numerous dialectical modules you actually add a MSA module. I am a native speaker of English, but I also speak Spanish and French fluently. If however you want to be able to communicate with people from a specific country or region only then the dialect may be a good starting point. It has been heavily influenced mainly by the Berber languages and to a lesser extent by Latin (African Romance), Punic, Persian, French, and Spanish. Even native Arabic speakers from the Middle East and Egypt can seriously struggle to understand a speaker from North West Africa. Arabic language for foreign students is an Arabic language school in Marrakech, Morocco, North Africa. He earned his BA in Arabic Studies and his MA in Amazigh poetry. Since both of you have evidently self-studied MSA, I’m wondering which books or other resources you recommend for self-study of MSA? Having said that, I’m joining Talk In Arabic today! I love this site in that it helps me learning dialects with good ressources, but it would be hell if I hadn’t a solid grounding in MSA before that. The following consists of Moroccan terms used in Standard Arabic (not terms used in the separate Moroccan Arabic language): Standard Arabic terms only used or having specific meanings in Morocco. There is a market for thousands for religious-minded students, literary students, news and media minded students of Arabic. Hello. I am french and I have spent some time learning MSA for the pleasure first. I am now quite happy of being able to talk with anyone in Lebanon in the Lebanese dialect (now I’m trying to get the same level of fluency in Saudi Arabic), but also happy with understanding books and news and written stuff … And occasionally, speaking in MSA too (university, talks with media people, some subjects inside a conversation, etc). I recommend learning a dialect for the country you plan on visiting. A French-speaker cannot go to Portugal and be understood. That’s totally a sound argument. #MoroccanArabic #Glossika As a polyglot who speaks several Middle Eastern languages, Imad shares with us an introduction of Moroccan Arabic. Other such examples exist in the world, such as Indonesia. I understand too that people who don’t live in an Arabic country may go the other way and start with MSA. He says it is like a key to unlock all of the dialects. The history of Morocco is one of competing colonization and cultural mixing. People usually get a sense of your language, and will speak to you in your language, especially if its English. (to show disinterest), Min baad - Later (pretend to show disinterest by saying you'll come back later.. someone who is disinterested would say they'll come back later even though they won't). For example, 'min baad' needs to drop the 'i'. When I left that environment for one where there were no speakers of that dialect, in order not to forget my Arabic I started to learn MSA. Members who are knowledgeable about this destination and volunteer their time to answer travelers' questions. Arabic speakers almost never speak “pure” MSA anyway (well, maybe some politicians, religious scholars or journalists do), but they will sprinkle their dialect with words and structures from MSA when necessary, depending on their ability to do so, in order to be better understood by speakers of other dialects. It’s not a theoretical language like MSA. This serves to differentiate the spoken vernacular from Standard Arabic. Very interesting conversation. This is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Okay I’m digressing a lot here but I believe I’ve made my point. I have read and understand the arguments for and against learning a dialect first. I would think it to be logical that if you are going to be travelling throughout the Arab world it would be best to equip yourself with a base such as MSA (perhaps not on an advanced level). The Prophet surely did not write in a variety of Arabic that only the educated could understand. I am thinking that now, getting a teacher would be a good thing for me. While most CMA words find their root in MSA, ma ny CMA words are borrowed from Spanish, French, and Berber. There are plenty of advanced Arabic students here who can read a sentence in MSA, translate it, respond to it, understand it. Distinguishing literacy from fluency is essential, then you can make a decision for yourself. Experienced tutor for Modern Standard Arabic and moroccan dialects. MSA is a good starting point in learning the fundamental basics of speaking Arabic. I appreciate both sides of the argument for MSA vs dialogues. French was standardized on the dialect of Paris, English on the dialect of London, though both cities have drifted away from the standard since then (not for long enough to lose intelligibility). And I do agree with Donovan that if you want to speak “like a native” it’s best to start with a dialect, and then branch out to learning MSA (which is much more complicated!) They are writing in their own dialects- and now we seen a phenomenon we have never seen before technology and social media- dialects in a written form. A lot of language products and courses market Modern Standard Arabic as the lingua franca (bridge or vehicular language) of the Middle East and North Africa. Starting and finishing conversations in arabic will be appreciated, even if you need to use french and english in between. Just think of MSA as just another module, or business expansion, rather than getting bogged down with an old a methodological debate. Thanks! It gets to the point of hilarity because the Iraqi is not using proper grammar and sentence syntax. I have been taking MSA for a while now and all I could think was ” What, all that time wasted!” That said, I have to point out that I live in a multi cultural environment with Arabs from every where. And then, of course, there are the Amazigh languages. Yes many speak Javanese, minang, Balinese etc with each other depending on region, but they are also well versed in Bahasa Indonesia simply because that’s the national spoken language. I recognize that I might get conflicting ideas, but I’m reaching out to this community for advice. Many of you asked us to do more of these so here … Cheers, When I tell my Iraqi friends that I’m considering learning Sudanese Arabic, they are appalled, and they ask why in the world I would want to learn a dialect instead of the “original” Arabic. That’s all. Answer 1 of 21: Hi everyone, In anticipation of my first trip to Morocco I've been brushing up on my French and also trying to learn basic Arabic. Maghrebi (Western) Arabic is the group of languages that they speak in North Africa, in Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria, Libya, Mauritania and Western Sahara. Ask anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of Arabic about Moroccan and they’ll tell you it’s like a totally different language. There's not a single human being on the face of this planet who speaks it as a native language or uses it in day-to-day affairs. tripadvisor.com/Travel-g293730-s604/Morocco:…. For example, here in Egypt I often encounter Syrians, Yemenis and Iraqis who 'Egyptianize' their speech somewhat while they're living here to get by. Would appreciate any advice- and please don't just say 'They'll speak English, don't worry'- I'm not a great linguist by any means but I do prefer to make an effort to speak at least some of the local language... Moroccans will understand your classical Arabic but you may not understand their replies. They teach MSA as a 'conversational' language that will make communication between all Arabic-speaking people possible. You'll have a much better time communicating with people of other dialects than you would if you tried doing it through MSA. When learning Arabic initially, if you are not immersing yourself in the language by traveling to a Middle Eastern nation, you will never truly learn the roots of the Arabic language. iStock Golden Arabic Door In Fez Morocco Stock Photo - Download Image Now Download this Golden Arabic Door In Fez Morocco photo now. ? And like it or not, dialects in the Middle East are changing rapidly, and the old thinking of MSA being the sacred language of the Quran and the highest form of Arabic, etc etc, will not save the longevity of MSA. The Defense Language Institute lives off of it, Universities thrive on it, but the truth is, times are changing, and so will the importance of Modern Standard Arabic. To state that MSA is not a lingua franca of the Arab world is erroneous. Originally, I spoke West-Bank Palestinian Arabic. My question: where is MSA actually SPOKEN? I understand Egyptian Arabic is the most widely spoken dialect, but Iâm not sure if itâs right for me, if I was to learn a dialect. If I learn one dialect, such as Sudanese, would that help me to be able to learn other dialects, such as Iraqi? This question is often asked by people who want to be conversational in Arabic too. I’m Malay who knows Malay and Bahasa Indonesia. Learn the sarf kabeer wa sagheer and learn nahw and learn the hurooful illah and learn how roots work. I have seen countless examples of Arabs using MSA to communicate with others from different Arab (or non-Arab) countries. Which brings me to my question- will my basic 'standard' Arabic be understood, or should I focus all my attention on improving my (admittedly terrible) French? Useful Moroccan Phrases. Alternatively, all the Shaami dialect I know I picked up from independent study, watching movies, or conversing with Arab students on campus. The languages of prestige in Morocco are Arabic in its Classical and Modern Standard Forms and some times French, the latter of which serves as a second language for approximately 33% of Moroccans. To me, Bahasa Indonesia is just like standard British accent for British people (queen’s English) or standard American English for the Americans. MSA is like bahasa Indonesia. Get answers to your questions about Marrakech, Clothing for Female Travellers in Marrakech, Airport bus and other Marrakech bus routes and rural routes. How can we possible understand the news, listen to a talk, read a book or magazine, or write a proper letter if we don’t know MSA? Related: What are the most popular tours in Marrakech? I think Classical Arabic or MSA is overrated and something that non-Arabs emphasize, when in reality, most Arabs recommend people learn a dialect & will warn you that learning MSA will be time taken away from learning a spoken dialect. Don’t do any reading or writing. And by the way, Sudanese/Chadic Arabic is a great counterexample to the claim that if you know one Arabic variety you know them all. What language in Morocco? If I speak and understand only Palestinian, how can I possibly communicate with, say, a Sudanese unless I ‘Egyptianise’ my speech (since many Arabs are familiar with Egyptian due to the entertainment world, but I have never been to Egypt and I know nothing of Egyptian entertainment except Umm Kulthum)? This has not happened in the Arab world for political and social rather than linguistic reasons. I don't want to sound negative but learning a few stock phrases like 'how much is this' isn't much help when you can't understand the answer! Start out with magazines and then graduate to Children’s stories. However, my experience indicates that some of the views above are slightly misleading. Our contributors are based in the Fez Medina and in other centres around Morocco. I feel that both are essential, and that the main challenge is to find/design Arabic programs which don’t focus too much on certain skills to the detriment of others. i have no problem being corrected, especially without a condescending and arrogant tone. A lot of language products and courses market Modern Standard Arabic as the lingua franca (bridge or vehicular language) of the Middle East and North Africa. Thanks a lot, arne. Foreigners (meaning people who speak English as a primary language and learn Arabic later in life) are constantly hanging onto the importance of MSA, insisting it “unlocks Arabic dialects around the world.” This is part of the old school of thinking when it comes to learning Arabic. I've witnessed this personally many times here in the Middle East with advanced students of MSA who can't hold a simple conversation with an average Joe on the street. I have lived in Tunis for 18 months now and have learned the dialect since then for around 10 hours a week besides work. Dialect of course refers to any of the many local varieties of Arabic spoken across North Africa and the Middle East, and Modern Standard Arabic is the variety you see and hear when you turn on the news or read a newspaper. If you think MSA is the language of all things written, think again. And i think as long as quran exist MSA would never extinc. I recently acquired a copy of a book by Munther Yunes at Cornell who has written about an “Integrated Approach to Teaching Arabic” – a valuable read. Another problem is that the pronunciation changes around the country. Hi Adam. Ibn Adam, Arabs learn MSA in school so they can read and write, understand and participate in politics, media and so on but you'll be hard pressed finding a single person anywhere who speaks it as a conversational second language. But native English,Spanish,French,Arabic etc teacher will insist that to be able to speak fluently in the language you must study to death the language’s grammar terms eventhough fact is no native speaker know verb from the adverb. If I go to Jogja and speak bahasa Indonesia, they can reply back with naturalness like it’s their mother tongue. This was already posted on tripadvisor.com/…, This is all in Moroccan Dialect according to my research, Smehliya – Sorry (or ‘excuse me’ to get attention). If I learn the dialect used here in Oman, (which incidentally varies from region to region) with whom will I speak it outside of Oman? And Michael to figure out what they are saying proceeds to complain how. 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