Secondly, thanks for all of the information. From the #1 Silicone Brand, Tub and Tile Silicone 1 sealant is a 100% silicone and 100% waterproof sealant ideal for areas susceptible to moisture such as Both rubber and silicone are elastomers. What should I do? You need to use 100% silicone, none of that acrylic silicone or any of that stuff that sounds fancy (but doesnât work long-term). We still have the Kerdi box, it was built in 2001, no leaks. The FDA also considers use of silicone breast implants to be safe. I used it in a few spots on my shower floor with kerdi membrane, and flood tested it for 4 days straight with no leaks. For those areas thin set or Kerdi-fix are recommended. Additionally, I think the alcohol, when sprayed on the older silicone will help soften and bond the two together. This multi-purpose leak sealer waterproofs and protects gutters, skylights, flashing, roofs, RVs, campers, windowsills, foundations, boats, cars, concrete, glass, metal, and more. Most formulas are mildew-resistant and have inhibitors to slow discoloration (but all caulk gets ugly over time). You can silicone between the tile and backer around the hole, but there’s no need to tear tile out to do it. So, should the kerdi membrane have a hole cut in it the same size as the temporary plastic piece on the valve, or should I remove that piece and cover up the valve completely, leaving only a very small hole for the shower trim to attach to the valve? If your hole spans two or more tiles then the technique is the same, but you should have two beers Pepsis. Depending on these, we can find the difference between silicone and rubber. I normally just cut slits in the barrier in the stud bays. I imagine water running down the front of my tile and getting behind my escutcheons then making its way through the 2 inch hole through my Kerdi and backer board and into the inside of my stud wall. Silicone caulk is expensive but worth the cost due to its flexibility and long life. Plumber advised me to have my tile guy build it up with mud. Hedgehogs like apples. You can also do this with the cutout for the shower head if you want to, but it’s not as imperative up there. Seams or gaps that exist where you have PVC piping for drains or vents must be sealed. good luck getting that ostrich saddle off your hands…. . You need to use 100% silicone, none of that acrylic silicone or any of that stuff that sounds fancy (but doesn’t work long-term). One of the problems with waterproofing a shower is the fact that you NEED to have holes in it. Silicone that space, then paint your redgard down over it all the way to the flange. They are polymeric materials that exhibit the viscoelastic behaviour, which we generally call as elasticity. I don't recall any metion of sillycone or KerdiFix. If it’s 100% silicone there isn’t (for all intents and purposes) any difference at all. 3) What’s the mesh tape about in the pic? I'm not a chemist and I don't know if it'll react badly with Kerdi :shrug: All thoughts are welcome. Either the technique above or you can use schluter valve seals on them (just google it). :)From memory Peter ( Schluter's Technical Director? ) If you get enough silicone on there you’ll be able to run your finger along the perimeter of the cutout after you install your tile to smooth the silicone. I bought the Kerdi 1/8" x 1/8" sq notch trowel the next day. This silicone works great,used to fix a hole in metal roof around pipe,just layered it to fix a 1.25 inch gap .I would buy again,and will here soon Read more Wear your silicone patches for a minimum of 1 hour and preferably up to 8 hours. What this does is create a dam of silicone around the perimeter of your cutout. All the cool kids are doin’ it. Thanks John, everyone.....In a shower, primary concern to me is sealing around the shower valve, in case any water gets past the escutcheon. The kerdi mixing valve seal is 4-1/2″ and the Hansgrohe ibox requires a 5″ hole. If you are using the traditional method and have your waterproof barrier behind your substrate (like in these pictures) you’ll need to silicone the perimeter of the barrier to the back of your backerboard. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Get off my ass about it. Alas, I have one final question. I don't blame you for looking for a better price. Due to inaccuracies in cutting valve holes in the Hardi, the Hardi holes (in some cases) are a little bigger than the escutcheon seals (up to 3/8″ more on radius). If the instructions for the product say to use 100% silicone then that is the way to proceed. With that much work at that point it would actually likely be easier to replace the floor. How to Use Dermaclara Silicone Fusion⢠Patches for Wrinkles Many people ask how they should use silicone patches. Not sure why it costs so much (besides the Kerdi name). Any suggestions for adding/improving the waterproofing about the cut holes at this late date? Still see joints I did in public buildings that are 20-25 years old and not replaced. We can distinguish silicone from rubbers by the atomic structure. I have plenty of room under the floor to access the drain and pipes there….what I’m curious about is an idea of simply adding a second drain into the floor. So how do you waterproof a hole? You can bond the rubber seal to the kerdi with kerdi-fix. They don’t have to be very long, just enough for any vapor to dissipate. « Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 12:33:28 pm » You can never tell, but the absence of a earth connection & wrist strap connection would indicate that the mat has not been properly designed to create an ESD workstation. 4. Roger, For those areas thin set or Kerdi-fix are recommended. We chose to do this method but you can also buy special Schluter tub spout covers. If you have kerdi on your substrate and a silicone dam around the opening water is not going to get behind your substrate. However, once you get those installed the only way water can get into them is to fly sideways – it doesn’t do that. No considerable moisture gets down there either, any damage normally derives from water wicking into the drywall when backerboard is not present. It’ll be fun. Food grade silicone is a non-toxic type of silicone that doesnât contain any chemical fillers or byproducts, making it safe for use with food. Maybe I’m just not understanding your concern correctly? I just tiled a floor this weekend based your great tips. It probably had that 5% or worse of D4. That and seeing the condensate on the plastic with our open wall cavities in the training areas when using liquids is what has made me a strong believer in sheet products and using felt. 100% WEATHERPROOF: This 100% silicone formula offers protection from water damage, providing a reliable seal in areas prone to weather and water exposure 7-YEAR MOLD-FREE PRODUCT PROTECTION: Protects against stain-causing mold and mildew growth —doesn’t bond to thinset (wet or dry), right? Nvm that’s a yes… this is an awesome thread. Red Devil 8164012 100% Silicone Sealant Architectural Grade, Bronze, 9.8 oz, Case of 12 By Red Devil product price $47.97 & FREE Shipping. Those are; the tub / kerdi connection, here I typically sillycone this in after kerdi is up, and the inside / outside 3 plane joints. In addition, silicones have more special properties than normal rubbers. (Picture 1). I did the caulking on my house 15 years ago including the cedar siding joints, still not a tear in it. It’s about 1.5″ in diameter. 1) Is the thinset applied up to the opening in the substrate and then scraped away (like a 3/4″ gap)? After reading many online forums, I read there is a standard off the shelf limestone sealant which does virtually the same thing, but is < 1/4 the price. The simple truth is that some projects just don't need extremely strong adhesives, and diluting the silicone is a good way to make your sealant cheaper for these kinds of projects. This ensures the fleece will be 100% covered in thin-set. If I place the kerdi membrane up to that, and then it is removed when the trim is added, what prevents moisture from getting through that hole? when you sheetrock or cement board a tub surround, do you extend the sheetrock or cement board over the tub lip and onto the top ledge or do you just end your sheetrock or cement board right above the tub lip and then let the tile extend onto the tub ledge? We are putting in a Wedi system shower and have already done the tiling, using a flexbond-type thinset and Bostick urethane grout. Everything in this bathroom (and this house) has been do-or-die to the tune of fractions of an inch. When cured and washed, the product meets the requirements of FDA Regulation No. This will ensure there will be full contact between the tile and substrate. Great site my man. Just install the new mud deck and tile away. Kate. A quick and easy way to seal PVC is with silicone. They are all the same. You can also use KERDI-FIX to waterproof where the tub spout comes through the KERDI-BOARD. There really is no easy solution to it. It seems that very little water would penetrate that small exposed annulus (3/8″ wide) of tile face that is inside the projected radius of the silicone dam. :), It was actually Feb., 2002. I plan to use a moentrol 3330 Three Function mixing and transfer valve, and of course, the kerdi mixing valve gasket is not big enough. When the water gets nasty, every few months, we pump it out with a tile saw pump. Our patented Polymer Bonding Process (Patent No: 10,577,521) The Ultimate Guide on How To Bond/'Glue' All Silicone Types and Products Silicone is the go to polymer when cushioning and/or sealing is the objective. Professional Tile Installation Contractor Fort Collins and all of Northern Colorado. Amazing stuff, but expensive. I do not have a picture of that. Five years later, we managed to finally get to tub stage. What to do now? They will not suggest its use for primary seaming or for areas that might be constantly wet. I’m building a tile shower with Kerdi membrane, and the Schulter shower base kit (I read your manual on waterproofing with Kerdi – it’s excellent!). I have been reading through your manuals, and they are helping me feel more confident about tiling. (Please DO NOT email me with the punchline to that joke!). Do I just paint the redguard right up to the holes? Something more or less obvious? It comes with its own seal, but it’s not kerdi, obviously. Unlike some adhesives, silicone sealants must cure. Schluter Kerdi fix was recommended earlier in the thread. Do I not worry about caulking that space until after all the thinsetting, taping and redguarding? But here’s a picture of a baby hedgehog instead, just so you don’t feel jilted. The valve manufacturer supplied the typical plastic placeholder/spacer that temporarily attaches to the valve and protrudes through the substrate. Yes. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge with us. :clap2: :yeah: :cool: Thanks again to everyone..this site is da bomb.......... :shades: vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. I could tie them together below the floor….BUT….I have no clue how to make sure I have a seal around my existing membrane so as to not have problems with water doing what it does so well and go where I don’t want it to go. Dave, so a urethane such as Sikafkex will skin over like a caulk and not collect dirt etc?????? Silicone on the “plaster guard”…..enough? I’ve never tiled over existing tile. and runs down the wall, it will run around the bead of silicone and continue down the wall into the tub or shower base and into the drain. Once you get your escutcheon (the metal cover plate) on there no water will enter through the front of the tile, then any water behind your tile will run around the dam. As a result, silicone caulk can handle movements in the joints, the areas where the walls meet. No considerable moisture is going to get to that area anyway. Regarding my shower pan liner, is it okay to tack it right on the foil faced foam sheathing (into the studs of course), or should I take all that down and just leave the studs and fluffy insulation? Acrylic latex ⦠3. I just want it to last a long time. :). Thanks for your help. I am now wondering if the 12×24 tiles will hold securely with All Set. Hey Roger, just bought your kerdi bundle and read the kerdi book top to bottom. The properties that make silicone suitable for these uses include its ability to create watertight seals. and for bonding to glass and plastic. OK, but what about the silicone dam behind the tile? Do I need to prepare that tile with anything? 100% silicone doesnât mold. Hello. At the time they didn't have KerdiFix out. But wait, I just sealed the gap where the tile meets tub flange, also with silicon, so there is no way for the water to drain into the tub! Whether you have utilized a topical waterproofing like Hydroban or Redgard (liquid) or Kerdi (sheet), or youâre using the traditional method with a membrane behind your substrate, the answer is silicone. Well, in an effort to save me from losing more space in my already tiny “elf closet”, our carpenter framed our tub wall that holds our plumbing with a 2×4, instead of a 2×6, which was great, because we could leave the stupid little closet alone. No, you do not. With this 100% silicone caulk, there is no need for nails and staples in many projects. Embed the KERDI in the KERDI-FIX and work the membrane onto the substrate to ensure full coverage and remove air pockets. Dave or John, what size is the box? No. Should I silicone the opening you mentioned on the cement board section? 3) I have access panels on the back side of the wall. This creates the same waterproof dam on the backside of your substrate as well. There are only 2 places I worry about with Kerdi and sheetrock. Henry ® 880 Tropi-Cool ® Stop Leak ® 100% Silicone Spray Sealer is a premium, easy-to-use, 100% silicone aerosol leak sealer, formulated to provide a permanent leak-proof seal on a variety of surfaces. I am wondering what I should do before I even get to the tiling part. It never hurts, though. Use included rubber seal…how to attach to the kerdi? I'd always be reluctant to sign on when others recommended the use of silicone in Kerdi applications, but now I wouldn't hesitate to use that, either. You may have answered this elsewhere, but I was reading your traditional shower waterproofing guide and had a quick question. First a little about silicone. Roger, :D. Getting raggdy from the condensate of the ice cubes when we fill it with bottle water and ice, but hate to throw it out. And an apple. I've used a lot of Kerdi fix for its intended purpose of sealing membranes and fixtures, and have never tried to caulk a tub surround with it. I am in the middle of shower remodel. Just grab a tube of silicone and stop overthinking it! Ever have one tank that nothing survives in? Thanks. (That’s the word on the street…), Help with all your tile needs (and extreme jackassery! Is that common practice? Sticks like crazy. 100% silicone will perform better than âextendedâ. Hi Roger, Pure Silicone Caulk . Crafters and artists may find that this clear silicone sealant is a great choice for sculpting and picture frame assembly. i was there in august and drank a bottle of water out of that little box , quite a sales pitch schluter boys came up with...... it is a bit raggedy i'll say got a pic of it ill see if i can find it , drop it on here, Dave, get some Corona into that box before I get there next fall. No need for thinset behind it, just screw it to the studs through your existing substrate. I’ll have to get you a six pack for this probably…two beers isn’t enough. Once everything is on water isn’t going to get through it. Also, am I supposed to thinset and tape the space between the cement board and lip of the tub? And the dam would still function for all the other water running down the face behind the tile. I don’t quite understand what you’re asking. I always use backer rod if I want a sealant to stay put. Just do the dam, it can be larger than the cover. My plumber and tile guy say not to worry—they’ll just make the tile hole smaller than the Hardi hole, so the escutcheon will seal against the tile. A lot of people ask me which silicone is best. The problem with holes in a waterproof shower is that they make it not so waterproof. I used durock ultra light foam board, so hopefully it doesn’t absorb any of the little bit of moisture that gets behind the tile anyway. To seal a PVC pipe with silicon you must first obtain one or more tubes of silicone, then prepare the PVC pipe. Brilliant! Yep, I was present when that box was constructed. Click Above to have professional TileTips sent directly to your inbox. . There is a little foam thing inside my escutcheons, but I have little faith in it. You still need waterproofing over the backer above the fiberglass, but nothing is needed over where the fiberglass is. Adding a second drain and tying it into the existing membrane would require at least partially removing floor tile, doing all that, then replacing deck mud and floor tile. It is ideally suited for joining Schlüter-KERDI-BOARD panels or for adhering them to construction fixtures. So that brings my next question: do I need to do more than simply pack the new (and hopefully correctly sloped) mud deck onto the existing tile? Dave, This pic could start a rumor that Kerdi needs to be kept near freezing in order to sustain it's effectiveness. ... Used it to cover the Schluter screws on the Kerdi board with Kerdi band per instructions. Curing silicone basically means letting it dry. No water is going to get into that 3/8″ radius, nor through the front of the escutcheon. I guess my concern is sealing up the kerdi membrane properly around the valve opening through the substrate. Now once you get your hole cut out in your tile flip it over so you’re staring at the back of it. Thanks for your time. Paint the redgard right up to the holes. Do you trim it and where does the edge go relative to the flooring – presumably not below (in this case the drywall was already removed for the legs, so we put backerboard there.). While it may cling to the side of the escutcheon and be channeled sideways for a bit, as soon as it hits any type of barrier it will begin to run down again. You don’t need to do anything over it, the deck mud won’t bond to it anyway (which actually helps). At all wall junctions, apply KERDI-BAND or KERDI-FLEX as described in steps 1-3, ensuring a minimum of 2" overlap on to ⦠We are using tile for walls and mosaic for shower floor and I want to know if any additional waterproofing materials other than backer board need to be applied before or after the backer board and was told not to put any holes in fiberglass coating so is there is need to do that that at all for any reason? Re: Are silicone mats really esd safe? The pipe must be dry before you apply the silicone; this allows the silicone to set up properly. Rubbers are naturally occurring, or else we can synthesize them, but silicon is only synthetic in nature. While I normally always advocate to follow manufacturers recommendations I have always removed plaster guards from every valve I’ve done a shower in. The product is really only part of it, the application is just as important. Just happened to fall on a seam in the substrate? 8.1 Schlüter®-KERDI W A T E R P R O O F M E M B R A N E F O R S U B S T R A T E P R O T E C T I O N Application and Function Schlüter®-KERDI is a crack bridging water- proof membrane made of soft polyethylene, 2. My next project is to tile a shower using Kerdi membrane. It's been full of water since 2001? :). :D. I'm thinking of taking the mud course in march, maybe i'll do it just so's i can say i drunk sumthin outa that box :yipee: GabeS I like to bring the board down to the lip and the tile down past the edge of the board to the tub. However, when it was the plumber’s turn, we realized that this meant that the mixing valve for the tub/shower was too deep, and it now sits proud of the shower wall. We are renovating our 150 year old house, and in the upstairs bathroom, I found a stupid dead space that, if we rearranged some things, would allow us to have a tub in there. I am still a little confused about how to waterproof around the holes. The 100 percent silicone material holds up under heat, vibration, shock, temperature changes, and moisture. and for bonding to glass and plastic. Nope, use it. It seems that your method above is perfect for this type of installation, but before I go hacking this together, I just want to confirm that this is the correct course of action. And I’ve done a lot of moens. There's is an epoxy offered by a competitor that works OK. Once of our clients gave the That would eliminate the need to remove the existing mess. GE 1 or GE012A has D4 at 1-5% by weight. Do I absolutely need to use kerdi fix around the mixing valve and tub flange or can I use 100% silicone? If you want to, pull the top of the tile back off and check to make sure you have complete contact with the silicone bead and the shower substrate. Certified by NSF to NSF / ANSI Standard #51.Safe for incidental food contact. Really. My question is what happens next? (Picture 2). The opening is 5″×8″, and at the base of the shower wall. The lowest portion of the floor is about 6″ further in than the drain, so in order for all the water to be out of the shower at the end of the day, one has to squeegee it toward the drain. If it’s at the base of the wall water will get to it. I live in michigan where the winters are cold if that helps with the answer. Hey all, With Kerdi-fix at $20 a tube, I want to use something more economical but just as effective. You can also get a ‘drain extender’, which raises the drain, then pack another mud deck over the existing tile, correctly sloped, and tile it. Performance Of 100% RTV vs. Extended. Keep silicone patches on your skin from 1-8 hours. Schlüter-KERDI-FIX is an elastic installation adhesive made of an MS polymer. Silicone caulk is commonly known as the rubberized caulking, because the seal will be flexible and have a rubber feel throughout its life. Schluter has said in past that 100 percent silicone is an acceptable substitute for Kerdi Fix, though, and I was quite surprised at just how well that did in my comparison testing. (Picture 3). Now all you need to do is shoot a large bead of silicone all the way around the perimeter of the hole. Do those faucet and shower head holes get thinset or tape? 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